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Theory of evolution? And the odds are...


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#1 Luthersfaith

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:42 AM

http://www.slate.com...ist.single.html
"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#2 Donald Ennis

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:35 PM

The real problem is in that Time is what is holding everthing in place, the center of which is the start of everthing and as we can see from the 10th incarnation of the Doctor that just isn't so.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." the Doctor

I think time and matter, including life has the same problem. and this is the best explaination I've ever found in science, fact or fiction.

Edited by Donald Ennis, 09 September 2013 - 03:38 PM.


#3 Luthersfaith

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:04 AM

As I see it the main point of the article is that the nature of the universe is contrary to the fragility of the nature of what it takes for life to exist.  Plus the fact that according to the theory of evolution, (that every thing evolved from nothing) time itself had to evolve - and time is not a living thing so how may I ask did it evolve because it is not a living thing - no survival of the fittest process was at work.)

 

This fact, that the odds are against the fragility of life, is a tremendous problem for evolution and commonsense.  The September issue of Readers Digest has a article entitled "Your Amazing Body" lists just how complex the human body is.  (yes, that sentence ended with is.)  After reading the "Your Amazing Body" article, how could all of those things come to be, by the mere passing of time with no Designer? 


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#4 Donald Ennis

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

I just want to know how time started?



#5 Luthersfaith

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:41 AM

II Peter 3:8

: But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

 

Genesis 1:1-5

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

The God of the Bible created the universe and the "time" by which we measure it by. Basically time is measurement.


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#6 Donald Ennis

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:45 AM

I agree with you Luther, I want to see a scientific explaination of how time, something that has not begining and no end explain it.



#7 Trying hard

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 05:45 PM

Time without end.  Amen



#8 young_dad

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

Evolution is Not Just a Theory



#9 Luthersfaith

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:33 PM

Evolution is Not Just a Theory

Interesting theory...  Micro-evolution yes.  Macro-evolution... is a leap of faith.


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#10 young_dad

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

No.  It's called science.  

 

The terms macroevolution and microevolution relate to the same processes operating at different scales, but creationist claims misuse the terms in a vaguely defined way which does not accurately reflect scientific usage, acknowledging well observed evolution as "microevolution" and denying that "macroevolution" takes place.[6][18] Evolutionary theory (including macroevolutionary change) remains the dominant scientific paradigm for explaining the origins of Earth's biodiversity. Its occurrence is not disputed within the scientific community.[19] While details of macroevolution are continuously studied by the scientific community, the overall theory behind macroevolution (i.e. common descent) has been overwhelmingly consistent with empirical data. Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution".[20][21]

 



#11 Luthersfaith

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:23 AM

BLA BAL BLA... I'm a simple man.  Break it all down to the simplest terms.

 

The god the evolutionist worships is "chance."  e.g. Take an iPhone apart and put in a paper bag, shake it for 100 billion years and it will develop a conscience, reproduce via male and female sex, heal its self AND become a living being!

 

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

 

Judgment day is coming.


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#12 young_dad

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:01 AM

Alrighty then. Considering I give cited work and you give blah, blah, blah and some rant about inanimate objects, I'll be moving along.  

 

If Judgement day is coming, bring it on.  Because I got a few words for the Judge.


Edited by young_dad, 03 April 2014 - 10:12 AM.


#13 Luthersfaith

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:33 PM

So sad.  Your afraid of the truth.

 

Boil evolution down to where it all begins and the iPhone example is totally true.  Something came from nothing.

 

You have a few words for the Judge?  Sorry to tell you, he as a complete record of everything you have said already.

 

Remember, you are choosing to be a fool.

 

Repent of it before it is to late.

 

I'll pray for you.


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#14 young_dad

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:08 PM

No offense, but your beliefs are not mine.  My faith, Judaism, encourages questions and especially questioning G-d.  Look at your old testament, every other story, man questions G-d.  That's not a lack of faith or being a fool, that's being human and what led Darwin and those after him to come up with evolution.  Your unwillingness to question or look further is insulting to both me and my faith.  If we can't question and ask why, how will we learn.  G-d didn't set us on the world to sit and accept what we've got.

 

If G-d has a complete record of what I've said, then I'll ask why didn't he listen.  I wrote about it 18 months ago and he still didn't listen.  Since that time, I've had a stroke and a heart attack, my daughter broke her ankle and my wife herniated a disc.  

 

Your calling me a fool who needs to repent, only drives home your lack of knowledge of me and my family, while your idea that your iphone example is representative of evolution's origin only proves the adage, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."



#15 Trying hard

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:55 PM

young-dad

 

Admit that you feel like JOB.  You have been through a lot, have every right to rant.  I have just one question for you to ponder.  How do you know your G-d didn't listen?  I've said the same thing a thousand times, and I always get the same answer.  We don't always get what we want, and if we thank him for the good days, then we must take the horrible right along with the good.  As for anyone accusing you and your family of being takers -   well who cares what others think.  You and your family are what is important.  As for what anyone says about your faith, if  you're Jewish than you are God's chosen people. 

I wish for you all the strength, trust me when I say I could you my life story, but I'm not going there, my eyes are fixed on the future, taking it one moment at a time, because I cannot handle taking on a whole day.

Wishing you all the best.



#16 Trying hard

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:04 PM

Luthersfaith

 

Remember the words, Do onto others, Do everything out of Love.  It is good to have discussions, deep discussions, debates.  I love them, but faith is faith and sometimes that is all we have to keep us going.  I love your spirited debate, I'm not just sure God would approve of anyone being called a fool, and God too has a list of everything you have said.  We have enough of name calling and second looks in this world of Parkinson', we all have our stories, some worse than others - lets have the debate, lets just tone it down a little.  Okay? 

Praying for you with love.



#17 Annikin

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:50 PM

This discussion reminds me of a conversation I participated in in grief counseling after I lost both my parents. I was the only one in that position in the group with most folks being older and having lost a spouse later in life-with the exception of one other woman a few years my senior  who was there because her son had committed suicide. She said she and her husband prayed and prayed to help her son who was very depressed and had already tried once before to kill himself. They questioned why God had not answered their prayers.  After listening to her story I politely and gently asked her if she ever considered that God had answered her prayers and that maybe the answer was no. I know that may sound cruel so simply put but she thought about it and said that that had never crossed her mind. She stopped me at the end of the meeting and thanked me as she no longer felt that God had not listened.  Faith and love are easy things to profess when everything is going great- how much you actually have  means little until it is tested. My mom always said I had such strong faith that that is why God tested me so much -That  being said my faith has been shaken with this illness and truth be told I am or was angry with God. My very Catholic mother would have said that I should not admit to that- my response as a scientist ( but also a religious person) - I can pretend I feel otherwise but wouldn't God still know? Then there was my brother's response, the best I could have asked for given he is a priest- I told him I was mad at God- his response was " that's okay, God has big shoulders".  

 

A friend of mine also w/ YOPD asked me if I ever asked "why me?" and I answered no, I just ask why. I am not sure an answer to the

"Why me?" question would make a difference.  I realize we are all going through something so foreign to us and it is easy to get irritated at each other, that we all have good and bad days but this is our safe place where support, understanding and TOLERANCE of our differences is necessary, let's never forget what brought us all here in the first place. Put the negative energy into fighting PD, not each other. Better yet, try entertaining someone else's point of view- research shows doing so engages parts of the brain we may not often use and is a good form of mental exercise.   

 

I wish us all peace and strength and laughter  :cool:


Edited by Annikin, 04 April 2014 - 07:52 PM.


#18 Luthersfaith

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:41 AM

Alrighty then. Considering I give cited work and you give blah, blah, blah and some rant about inanimate objects

 

Ok, take a cup of swamp slime, with tadpoles, a fish, a lizard, a bird, a dog and a monkey, and let them hangout together for a 100 billion years and see what you get.


"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#19 Luthersfaith

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:17 AM

Luthersfaith...  I'm not just sure God would approve of anyone being called a fool, 

 

 

Please... yes PD is tough but we are not victims.  Compassion is important, but it does not trump the truth... it highlights it.

 

Psalm 14 Verse 14    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

 

Romans 1

 

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 
I Luthersfaith am a great sinner, the blood of Jesus is my only hope.

"I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world." - Jesus (John 16:33)

#20 young_dad

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

@annikin I don't want to get in to a discussi on of faith, because it's an argument that no one wins.  Luther is so sure of his faith that noone else's opinion could possibly matter.  It must be nice to always be right.  I find it amusing that he quotes me Romans I, when I have stated that I am Jewish.  The difference in my faith from Luther's is that my faith believes any man of any faith can be good, Jews have more obligations, but that does not put them above others.  All men who follow the Seven Laws of Noah, not just the followers of one faith, are righteous. 

 

I'm not looking for God to listen or answer any prayers, I'm looking for people to understand the difference between religion and science.  Creationism is not science, it is religion.  Evolution is not a religion, it is science.  To equate the two is dishonest.  Most established religions understand that science and evolution, in particular, are not trying to circumvent their beliefs, but just understand our world better.

 

As for the experiment, how do we know Luther's experiment won't work. The problem is, we currently have a sample size of 1.  It's taken billions of years for the universe to form, create a solar system like ours with a planet located where it is and life forming and evolving over billions of years.  The fact is, science allows us to observe what has happened and continue to better understand our world.  People who study evolution don't worship "chance", they observe and then based upon those observations have come up with the most logical explanation to what they've observed.






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