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Linda Garren

A thread for anyone interested in topics of Christian faith--all invited.

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Linda Garren    747
On 3/6/2017 at 10:09 PM, swamper said:

I read something this morning that has given me pause, and I thought it might interest people on this thread. (Including you, Linda. I hope, as do so many others, that this is a technical problem only) This is a quote from Leonardo Boff, which was put forth on "Inward/outward" this morning: "Falling Down

Falling is not just a physical accident. Falling means recognizing freely and sincerely the limits of our strength in the face of situations that are beyond us and force us to submit.

Falling shows our human frailty. It reveals the fragile clay of which we are made, showing us that we are neither omnipotent nor invulnerable. Confronted with such a fall, we may nurture a spirit of revolt...Or we may nurture a spirit of resignation...There is a third possibility, however:

We can nurture the spirit of humility. While calmly accepting our fall, we may still trust in God, whose strength comes to reinvigorate our weakness, and get up again with renewed courage."

 

I have thought about this all day. I hope I can have a spirit of humility the next time I fall with my PD.

I like this, Swamper.  I've had many falls to develop humility (including one in the kitchen this evening),.  :-)   Seriously, though, situations that we have to admit are beyond us or at which we try but fail are so valuable in developing our character (humility being such an important one) as well as our learning to accept certain things.  One of my favorite poems is about the value of acceptance and it kind of parallels the reading.  And with the Lord, we always have the promise of His help to go forward in strength and courage,

I'm not familiar with Leonardo Boff or the book, but I'll see if I can find it on line.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

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Linda Garren    747
We Know God’s Truth Through Creation
By Rick Warren — Mar 29, 2017
 
 
Devotional image from Rick Warren
 
 

“But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is!” (Romans 1:19 MSG).

About 35 years ago, I was at a camp in the mountains. Alone in a room, I prayed, “God, if there is a God, I’m open. If you’re real, I want to know you’re real. And, Jesus Christ, if you can change my life, if there is a purpose for my life, I want to know it.”

You know what happened? I didn’t get goose bumps. I didn’t cry. No bright lights shone down — nothing like that.

Yet, still, it was the turning point in my life, because I was no longer biasing myself against God. I wanted to know the truth, even if it was inconvenient.

Truth can be discovered, but first we have to have an attitude of openness that says, “I want the truth more than anything else.” Once you choose that attitude, you can discover the truth. How?

First, through creation.

We learn a lot about God and a lot about truth just by looking at nature. This is why science is so important — it helps us understand God and his universe.

For instance, by knowing that there are 60,000 varieties of beetles, we learn God likes variety. By seeing a volcano, a tidal wave, or an earthquake, we learn God is powerful. From the delicately balanced ecosystem, we can observe God is incredibly organized.

The Bible says, “The basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse” (Romans 1:19-20 MSG).

God will also lead us to the truth through conscience, through careful consideration, through God’s commandments, and through Jesus Christ. We’ll talk more about it in the next few days.

Talk It Over

  • Why is God’s truth often inconvenient?
  • What do you need to change about your attitude so that you can earnestly seek truth?
  • How have you seen aspects of God’s character revealed in creation?

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Linda Garren    747
 
 
 
 
 

Daily Hope with Pastor Rick Warren

3/29/17

How to Show Love to a Demanding or Selfish Person

By Rick Warren — Mar 15, 2017

Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance”(1 Corinthians 13:7 NLT, second edition).

Love can be absolutely exhausting. Don’t let anyone fool you. The kind of love that really makes a difference in this world will zap everything out of you.

Sometimes you just don’t feel like you have any more love to give. Maybe you’re in a people-intensive job, such as teacher, salesman, or waitress, and you come home and think, “I just can’t face another need, another problem, or another heartache.” So you just shut down.

Or you need to show love to a particular person who is demanding, selfish, and never returns your love. And you just think to yourself, “I’m done. No more.”

While that’s perfectly natural and perfectly human, it’s not the standard of love God calls us to in the Bible. The Bible says, “Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance” (1 Corinthians 13:7 NLT, second edition). Love never gives up.

How can you have that kind of persistent love for another person? You get refueled.

When my kids were young, I remember taking the family to a nearby air show. It was so impressive to see how they would hook up a tanker to a jet in flight to refuel. I’ll never forget that.

But, can you imagine someone flying a jet saying, “I don't need to refuel!” The jet would crash and burn. In a long distance flight, a jet has to refuel.

To give the kind of persistent love that God wants you to give, you have to refuel your love tank. Look around at society, and you’ll see it’s littered with debris from relationships that have crashed and burned because people didn't refuel their love.

How do you refuel your love tank? You start by letting God love you. “We love because he first loved us” (1 John 4:19 NIV). When you’re worn out, tired, and can’t imagine showing love to anyone else, remember that God loved you so much that he sent his Son to die for you.

Now that’s real fuel. That’s what keeps you going when you want to quit.

Talk It Over

  • What do you need to do this week so you can refuel and love others well?
  • What are the characteristics of God’s love that you can exemplify?
  • Who have you lost faith in or given up on? How can you show love to that person today?

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Linda Garren    747
 

 

 

 

For Quietstill and others who wonder why Christians have felt their beliefs were threatened by the government's imposing orders that were in direct conflict with the Bible.  I think this is the clearest explanation I've seen and hope it will help you understand.  It is a very sobering synopsis, and I pray that everyone will take time to read it.

Linda

 
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Monday, March 27, 2017
 
 
 
Al Mohler Update
 
 

The Gathering Storm: Religious Liberty in the Wake of the Sexual Revolution

Al Mohler  3/29/17

In the first volume of his history of World War II, Winston Churchill looked back at the storm clouds that gathered in the 1930s portending war and the loss of human freedom. Churchill wisely and presciently warned Britain of the tragedy that would ensue if Hitler were not stopped. His actions were courageous and the world was shaped by his convictional leadership. We are not facing the same gathering storm, but we are now facing a battle that will determine the destiny of priceless freedoms and the very foundation of human rights and human dignity.

Speaking thirty years ago, Attorney General Meese warned that “there are ideas which have gained influence in some parts of our society, particularly in some important and sophisticated areas that are opposed to religious freedom and freedom in general. In some areas there are some people that have espoused a hostility to religion that must be recognized for what it is, and expressly countered.”[1]

Those were prophetic words, prescient in their clarity and foresight. The ideas of which Mr. Meese warned have only gained ground in the last thirty years, and now with astounding velocity. A revolution in morality now seeks not only to subvert marriage, but also to redefine it, and thus to undermine an essential foundation of human dignity, flourishing, and freedom.

Religious liberty is under direct threat. During oral arguments in the Obergefell case, the Solicitor General of the United States served notice before the Supreme Court that the liberties of religious institutions will be an open and unavoidable question. Already, religious liberty is threatened by a new moral regime that exalts erotic liberty and personal autonomy and openly argues that religious liberties must give way to the new morality, its redefinition of marriage, and its demand for coercive moral, cultural, and legal sovereignty.

These are days that will require courage, conviction, and clarity of vision. We are in a fight for the most basic liberties God has given humanity, every single one of us, made in his image. Religious liberty is being redefined as mere freedom of worship, but it will not long survive if it is reduced to a private sphere with no public voice. The very freedom to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ is at stake, and thus so is the liberty of every American. Human rights and human dignity are temporary abstractions if they are severed from their reality as gifts of the Creator. The eclipse of Christian truth will lead inevitably to a tragic loss of human dignity. If we lose religious liberty, all other liberties will be lost, one by one.

Religious Liberty and the Challenge of Same-Sex Marriage    Even though same-sex marriage is new to the American scene, the religious liberty challenges became fully apparent even before it became a reality. Soon after the legalization of same-sex marriage in the state of Massachusetts, several seminars and symposia were held in order to consider the religious liberty dimensions of this legal revolution. The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty sponsored one of the most important of these events, which produced a major volume with essays by prominent legal experts on both sides of this revolution. The consensus of every single participant in the conference was that the normalization of homosexuality and the legalization of same-sex marriage would produce a head-on collision in the courts. As Marc D. Stern, of the American Jewish Congress stated, “Same-sex marriage would work a sea change in American law.”[2] He continued, “That change will reverberate across the legal and religious landscape in ways that are unpredictable today.”[3]

Nevertheless, he predicted some of the battlefronts he saw coming and addressed some of the arguments that could already be recognized. Even then, Stern saw almost all the issues we have recounted, and others yet to come. He saw the campuses of religious colleges and the work of religious institutions as inevitable arenas of legal conflict. He pointed to employment as one of the crucial issues of legal conflict and spoke with pessimism about the ability of religious institutions to maintain liberty in this context, for which he advocates. As Stern argued, “The legalization of same-sex marriage would represent the triumph of an egalitarian-based ethic over a faith-based one, and not just legally. The remaining question is whether champions of tolerance are prepared to tolerate proponents of the different ethical vision. I think the answer will be no.”[4]

Stern did not wait long to have his assessment verified by legal scholars on the other side of the debate. One of the most important of these, Chai R. Feldblum, presented rare candor and revealed that an advocate for same-sex marriage and the normalization of homosexuality could also see these issues coming. Feldblum pointed to what she described as, “the conflict that I believe exists between laws intended to protect the liberty of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people so that they may live lives of dignity and integrity and the religious beliefs of some individuals whose conduct is regulated by such laws.”[5] She went on to state her belief that “those who advocate for LGBT equality have downplayed the impact of such laws on some people’s religious beliefs and, equally, I believe those who sought religious exemptions in such civil rights laws have downplayed the impact that such exemptions would have on LGBT people.”[6]

As Feldblum argued, she called for the society to “acknowledge that civil rights laws can burden an individual’s belief liberty interest when the conduct demanded by these laws burdens an individual’s core beliefs, whether such beliefs are religiously or secularly based.”[7]  Thus, in Feldblum’s argument, we confront face-to-face the candid assertion that an individual’s “belief liberty interest” must give way to what are now defined as the civil rights of sexual minorities. Feldblum believed she saw the future clearly and that the future would mean “a majority of jurisdictions in this country will have modified their laws so that LGBT people will have full equality in our society, including access to civil marriage or to civil unions that carry the same legal effect as civil marriage.”[8] In that future, religious liberty would simply give way to the civil liberties of homosexuals and same-sex couples. Feldblum, then a professor at Georgetown University Law Center, also understood that this moral revolution would mean that the government is “taking sides” in a moral conflict, siding with the LGBT community. This necessarily puts government on the side of that moral judgment, which is precisely the point Feldblum is insisting we must recognize. Once government is on that side of the moral judgment, its laws and its coercion will require those who hold to a contrary moral system, whether based in religious or secular convictions to give way to the new moral judgment affirmed by the government.

In her very revealing argument, Feldblum struggles to find a way to grant recognition and a level of liberty to those who disagree with the normalization of homosexuality, especially on religious grounds. Nevertheless, as she shares quite openly, she is unable to sustain that effort, given her prior commitment to the absolute imposition of the new morality by means of the law and the power of the state. Appointed and later confirmed as Commissioner of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, nominated by President Obama, Feldblum stated in a different context that the end result of antidiscrimination legislation would mean the victory of sexual rights over religious liberty. She commented that she could not come up with a single case in which, at least hypothetically, religious liberty would triumph over coercion to the new moral morality.

It is crucially important that we understand the moral judgment being made and enforced by legal mechanisms in the wake of this revolution. Feldblum, a lesbian activist who has advocated for same-sex marriage--and for the legalization of polygamy--fully understands the law teaches and reinforces a morality. She insists that the law must allow no deviation in public life from the dictates of the new morality. In this case, this means allowing virtually no exemptions to regulations prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

In her presentation at the Becket Fund event, Feldblum cited the writings of Judge Michael McConnell, who both offered support for same-sex marriage and the assurance that the religious liberty of Christians and other religious citizens must be protected. McConnell’s argument is straightforward:

The starting point would be to extend respect to both sides in the conflict of opinion, to treat both the view that homosexuality is a healthy and normal manifestation of human sexuality and the view that homosexuality is unnatural and immoral as conscientious positions, worthy of respect, much as we treat both atheism and faith as worthy of respect. In using the term ‘respect,’ I do not mean agreement. Rather, I mean the civil toleration we extend to fellow citizens and fellow human beings even when we disagree with their views. We should recognize that the ‘Civil Magistrate’ is no more ‘competent a Judge’ of the ‘Truth’ about human sexuality than about religion.[9]

Feldblum dismissed his argument by accusing McConnell of failing to recognize “that the government necessarily takes a stance on the moral question he has articulated every time it fails to affirmatively ensure the gay people can live openly, safely, and honestly in society.”[10]

In other words, there must be no exceptions. Religious liberty simply evaporates as a fundamental right grounded in the U.S. Constitution, and recedes into the background in the wake of what is now a higher social commitment--sexual freedom.

This post is an excerpt from my chapter in First Freedom: The Beginning and End of Religious Liberty, edited by Jason Duesing, Thomas White, and Malcolm Yarnell III.

ARTICLE CITATIONS

[1]Edwin Meese, Major Policy Statements of the Attorney General, Edwin Meese III, 1985-1988 (Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Library, 1989), 168.

[2]Marc. D. Stern, “Same-Sex Marriage and the Churches,” in Same-Sex Marriage and Religious Liberty: Emerging Conflicts, eds. Douglas Laycock, Anthony R. Picarello, and Robin Fretwell Wilson (Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2008), 1.

[3]Ibid., 1.

[4]Ibid., 57.

[5]Chai R. Feldblum, “Moral Conflict and Conflicting Liberties,” in Same-Sex Marriage and Religious Liberty: Emerging Conflicts, eds. Douglas Laycock, Anthony R. Picarello, and Robin Fretwell Wilson (Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2008), 124-125.

[6]Ibid., 125.

[7]Ibid., 125.

[8]Ibid., 126.

[9]Ibid., 133.

[10]Ibid.

I am always glad to hear from readers. Write me at mail@albertmohler.com

Edited by Linda Garren

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Linda Garren    747
On 3/26/2017 at 10:59 PM, pdmanaz said:

So, LUKE this thread is only for believers?  Hhhmmm ok. Got it. Please help everyone on here understand that. Special and exclusive club. So in this club you can disparage those of a different moral persuation, still trying to prove to the world that being LGBT is a choice lifestyle. Do you receive comfort from that? Does that help your PD?

P, you just are not getting it no matter how it is explained to you.  Read the first page of the whole thread, which explains my purpose in starting it.

The things I post are so that people learn and understand who the Lord is.  Most people have no clue.  Why would, therefore, someone decide to turn to Him, not knowing anything about Him? 

Get lost if you don't like this thread.  You've made your feelings very, very, very, very clear.  Just stay away and read the posts that interest you.  Go to or start the ones you want to.  If you don't stop haunting us here, I will consider asking that you be banned.  Enough, already.  We have reached our limit--and I feel perfectly justified in saying to you what I have.

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Linda Garren    747
On 3/27/2017 at 11:55 AM, Luke said:

Why are you still posting to this thread if you don't agree with the content?  What is a "special and exclusive club" on an OPEN forum?  Start a thread on cats and dogs copulating; start one on how you roll chicken bones to see your future; start one how you think cows are holy.  I don't think anybody cares; and if you do start a "counter-thread", most civil people will ignore it if they don't agree.  I tend to follow and respond to threads that can relate to myself, and the title of the threads give me the first clue.  It's an easy concept!  Live your life and don't be scared of other's opinions that are not your own.

Now you can carry on, I'm out....

Luke, well said, and I hope you won't be leaving us.  pdmanaz has been given an ultimatum to either stop his disparaging remarks or a request will be submitted to have him banned.

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Linda Garren    747
 
 

I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned, keep away from them.

— Romans 16:17

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noah    66

Linda I dont post alot but as a fellow christian I appreciate your input!

If someone doesnt like it they shouldn't bother reading kits as simple as that

 

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Rogerstar1    385
Rogerstar1    385

   Think, Linda G...do you believe the number of travelers (13) in a church bus may have been  a factor?  I am not a triskaidekaphobic but consider this: 

From the 1890s, a number of English language sources relate the "unlucky" thirteen to an idea that at the Last Supper, Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, was the 13th to sit at the table.[2] The Bible says nothing about the order in which the Apostles sat, but there were thirteen people at the table. Also, the number 13 is not uniformly bad in the Judeo-Christian tradition. For example, the attributes of God (also called the Thirteen Attributes of Mercy) are enumerated in the Torah (Exodus 34:6–7).

Triskaidekaphobic

 

 

 

Edited by Rogerstar1

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miracleseeker    675

I'm moving soon and my house # is 4 digits.  The same 4 digits is associated with my file at my doctor's office.  Apparently I've had it for years. Coincidence or fate?  Some things just cannot be explained and/or meant to happen I think.

 

 

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Linda Garren    747
2 hours ago, miracleseeker said:

I'm moving soon and my house # is 4 digits.  The same 4 digits is associated with my file at my doctor's office.  Apparently I've had it for years. Coincidence or fate?  Some things just cannot be explained and/or meant to happen I think.

I know what you mean.  :-)  In this case, though, I'm wondering if that is how the doctor's office numbers the patients' files (using the patients' number from their address)?

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Linda Garren    747
On 3/26/2017 at 3:58 PM, ellaangel2 said:

Welcome Back Linda!  Was very concerned about you and the "boys!"

So glad to have you back!

Ellaangel2, thank you. Good to have you here.

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pdmanaz    49

Linda. Who are you to have me banned? Do you really think you speak for the majority here? There are people that agree with me regarding your thread. Maybe I should have you banned for spewing your bigotry and one-sided form of religion. You are a mean and narrow-minded human being afraid of open discussion and dissension. Haveing me banned will not change the falicy of your beliefs.

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Linda Garren    747
11 hours ago, pdmanaz said:

Linda. Who are you to have me banned? Do you really think you speak for the majority here? There are people that agree with me regarding your thread. Maybe I should have you banned for spewing your bigotry and one-sided form of religion. You are a mean and narrow-minded human being afraid of open discussion and dissension. Haveing me banned will not change the falicy of your beliefs.

You've been extremely rude on this forum ever since your first post.  You are disrupting the thread, and I certainly will do as needed to protect it. If you want to take me on, so be it.  That would not be my choice, but I will work hard to prevent it being disrupted. This thread is for the majority, who have come here since the beginning.  I will not bow to the minority as our country does.  I will ALWAYS serve the Lord and bring information about Him to those who are interested since our government edicts have made it very had to honor God in this country in recent years. Historically, countries who have gotten to the point we have have fallen.  We are there.  And those of us who hold to worshiping and honoring God will stay strong.  I do pray for you and Roger and others who have a hard time on here (though I wonder why in the world you continue to come in and read when you feel as you do).  You are not exercising your right to read those things that are more in line with whatever it is you are trying to find.

I actually feel sorry for you, pd.  I don' know why you have such deep-seated anger, but I really feel sorry for you.  No matter how welcoming I was when you started off in this thread with your usual arrogance and criticism, you couldn't see beyond it to the opportunity to become part of a group of very nice people.  Enough, already.  Who are you to come in here and continually try to impose your beliefs on us?

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Rogerstar1    385
12 hours ago, pdmanaz said:

Linda. Who are you to have me banned? Do you really think you speak for the majority here? There are people that agree with me regarding your thread. Maybe I should have you banned for spewing your bigotry and one-sided form of religion. You are a mean and narrow-minded human being afraid of open discussion and dissension. Haveing me banned will not change the falicy of your beliefs.

pdmanaz - Please excuse our resident crone  who, like so many (myself included very occasionally :o ) takes herself and her sanctimonious point of view too seriously.  If she would ever discuss an issue like the theocratic one raised by my 13 bible studiers killed the other night in Texas as her omnipotent, all seeing "lord" took the night off allowing the catastrophe to occur, arguably, she might win a convert or two. But no, Linda G favors threats of excommunication, bullying and castigation.   That's all they got - look at all the turmoil and death brought on by religions on out planet.  Sigh.  Imagine.......as John Lennon taught us about 'no religion, too"    More later about Theodacy by writer Susan Jacoby.  Have a terrific day pdmanaz and other PWIDs.     

Edited by Rogerstar1
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Linda Garren    747
Quote

 

Obviously, as usual, you haven't really read through the thread to better understand things like this, Roger.  Because you don't really want to.  We've discussed your sharing this article of Jacoby's again  (which you post again and again and have gotten the feedback you need re: it).  There are thoughts and answers to conundrums like this.  And you well know that this thread's purpose is for support--not arguments.  It IS for polite back-and-forth discussion, and I welcome questions.  Not attacks.  I've never seen you able to have that kind of discussion.

You've sealed your fate here. We've  had enough.  It's clearly your decision, as you were warned.

And one more thing to both you and pd:   Don't you think I already have known all along that there were people who come into the thread who feel as you and pd do?  I have known very well that there are those who object and who chatter together with others who also do.  Do you think I'm so dumb as not to know that?  It's part of a Christian's life. Christ was rejected and criticized, and he told His followers to also expect to be.  I've experienced that all my life. Christ is who is most important to me--not those who like to try to hurt and taunt and say nasty, nasty things about me like you just have.  What you just posted is despicable.

And Roger, your posts are the reason that I could not correspond nor visit you any more as a friend.  I found out very quickly that I never know what to expect from you, though I do see that you have more gumption to say things through a public forum, and with those who have been here before, just as now, with whom you can buddy up.  Pretty childish--and also non-productive.

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ForumAdmin    169

This ongoing post has been closed.  Please refer to the Forum Terms and Rules located here:

If the abuse continues users will be banned.

Thank you.

 

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