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noah

sleeping trouble

24 posts in this topic

I have posted several times re: sleep

 
  I went to see an insomnia specialist and she came up with a plan.
What was happening is that my meds were running out at 7:30 so I would go to bed at like 8:30.(I was shaking) But my body wasn't ready for sleep so what would end up happening is that I would toss and turn for 2-3 hrs before falling asleep. Well that's not good.  I tried to make adjustments to my meds so included not have the shakes so bad and then I would be able to stay up longer but the meds caused more insomnia.
 
So I am between a rock and a small place.  If I take more meds I won't be able to sleep if I go to bed too early because my meds wear off I won't be able to sleep  either so basically I am screwed.
The therapist said that I have to retrain my brain. So to do that I can't go to bed any earlier than 11:30 that way I will only be spending 6 hrs in bed. So to accomplish that I have to stay up until that time . I take my last dose of sinemet @ 8:30  since I am not taking any extra meds(because they will keep me awake) I still shake so I am trying to use meditation to get my tremors under control. 
It usually takes me about 1/2-1 hr to  calm down my tremors. Do any of you guys know of my 30 minute guided  meditations?
 
 
 
 
 
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Noah,

I'm having the same sleep issues so I was really interested to read your post.  I go to bed 8:30-9:00pm.  Last dose of Sinemet is a 50/200CR at bedtime.  Lay awake for hours, sleep comes 3am or so.  So, your expert said to postpone bedtime until later.  I'm really tired by 8:30 but being tired and falling asleep are two very different things.   I'm going to try the suggestion and will post my results.  I've tried the glass of wine idea and it does not bring about sleep for me (not giving up though). 

I'm hoping that my MDS will prescribe a sleep medication at my next appointment.  Sweet dreams, Gardener

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I am concerned  about of taking any medication for sleep since i think most of them are addictive.

I take enough pills as it is/ My doctor did not offer any meds. I am tired by 8:30 so what i have been doing is when I start to get off which is usually around 8;:30-8:45

I go into our spare bedroom and either watch a little tv or if I am really off(for me this  means dykenisa shaking) i will start to listen to a relaxation tape now i may have to listen to

it more than once b/c I have to  try and stay awake until 11:30.  It takes me about 1/2 hr or 45 minutes to settled down  i have been using a meditation

app

Then I just relax until it is 11:30.   I have done that for a few nights and I have been falling asleep faster. I have an appt tomorrow so i will let you know what she says.  

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Noah. Not sure if you have ever tried Om-ing. I have a 1/2 om chant that I use once in awhile. Making the sound om helps with voice and it also give the brain something to do. The repetitive om helps to calm the body and I find my tremor, and tightness relax a bit.

 

best of luck

Adam

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In Buddhist tradition they believe the first sound made was om. Not sung but vibrated. Here is a definition that I found.

Om ( listen (help. · info), IAST: Auṃ or Oṃ, Sanskrit: ॐ) is a sacred sound and a spiritual icon in Hindu religion. It is also a mantra in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism.

It is used in eastern religious tradition to center the body and spirit and let the world slip away so the body can relax. This is done by taking a deep breath and letting the sound Om vibrate out of your mouth on a slow exhale. Deep breath in, slowly out while saying OOOooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm, then repeat till you feel relaxed and centered. There is tons of chants online you can do this with on You Tube. Deva Premal has a nice one.

 

If this is to "out there" for you beliefs I apologize. I figure anything is worth a shot with this disease.

 

Blessings

Adam

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And don't forget "Om Mani Padme Hum"  ( oh pat  my bum)

 

:D

 

 

 

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DH and I have no trouble,sleeping since we began  3 mg melatonin and  450 mg Valerian Root..I take two, DH takes one. We take them about 1 hour before going to sleep.  I sleep well for 6-8 hours.  From the forum, I consider that is good.  I have read on line melatonin is good for neuro  diseases.  Valerian root has been taken for hundreds of years for nervous conditions.

you can buy it anywhere...grocery stores etc

hope this helps

NN

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I take 2.5 mg of melatonin (cant take any more other wise I am groggy the next day)

I thought the max dose of valedrian root was 500 mg.

 So are you taking 2 pills

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I have never had trouble going to sleep. My problem is that I wake up after 4 hrs.

My first doc had me taking 2 CR sinemets a day as well as 4 regular.  He never gave me times when I should take them so I guessed.
The new doc has adjusted several things. I now take a CR at bedtime and the 2nd when I wake in the middle of the night. It seems to help.

I believe it is my Parkinson's symptoms that wake me up. Meds wear off and I wake up.

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Just last night, I started trying out Trazodone .25mg, which is half of their baby dose pill. I have had terrible insomnia for a couple of years that's been getting worse for at least a year. It is probably due to my early onset Alzheimer's or Dementia with Lewy Bodies. Anyway, the neuro treating me now suggested that it might help. Trazadone was formulated and went though clinical trials to become a big deal anti-depressant, but it failed terribly at being an anti-depressant. They found out though that it was great as a sleep aid, so that is what it is mostly used for now. I still take Celexa, as Trazadone just help it a little, but doesn't hurt on the anti-depressant front. Trazadone has no real adverse effects, it is not addictive, and my wife the family doctor says she has used it for years as her go-to sleep aid, so she is on board with giving it a try. Last night was my first night, and I went to sleep quickly, stayed asleep for about 5 hours, then slept comfortably on and off for about 3 more. I didn't have a drugged feeling this morning, at least no different than my normal drugged feeling. But it did take me a tad longer to get fully awake. I can see how it would have been easy as pie to just stay in bed another couple hours. And this is on a tiny dosage. I'm not recommending it to anyone, but it might be worth asking your own doctor about. I would be curious what other neuro's think of it. Oh, my main Parkinson med is Sinemet one and one-half 50/150 pills before meals, then I take one 50/150 pill before bed. My leg and hip pain usually drifts back after about 4 hours, but fortunately it isn't too bad yet at night if I take the pill at bedtime. I take a lot of other meds that aren't good for sleep too, but that's the way it is. Good luck.

Edited by BillBRNC
spelling

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Second night it took a little longer to fall asleep, but then I was thinking about some important things. When I got to sleep, I woke up once to bathroom about halfway to morning get up time. I will stop reporting unless this changes.

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taking 10 mg melatonin  +:

relaxation music 1

relaxation music 2

Tibetan Healing Sounds - Singing Bowls - this one is long - 9 hours

audio book or some lecture - complicated enough to get bored soon )

===============================

tried to postpone bedtime until later (usually I am tired at 8-9 PM and getting up at 3:30-4 AM) but even if I fall asleep after midnight I get up at 4AM..

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Quote

0.5 mg. generic Xanax, 10 mg. Nature's Bounty melatonin, Wellbutrin and Cymbalta.  If doesn't work, I try plain organic yogurt or heated milk.  Try not to eat sweets before bedtime.  Saw where eating something with fiber is also helpful, so I sometimes eat a half slice of organic bread with whole grains and seeds, etc.  Dave's bread is delicious, as is Eureka!  Can be found in most grocery stores, now, as well as Walmart and some organic food stores.

In certain moon phases, however, NOTHING helps.  My MDS told me to google something about the moon that I can't remember, but it seemed he agrees that there can be some effect from the moon.  Does anyone else experience this?  It can last 3-4 nights for me each month.

Oh--and staying off TV and computer for an hour or so before planning to go to sleep can also help.

Quote

 

 

 

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Well, last night I couldn't get to sleep with the .25 so I got up around midnight and took the other half. I then slept well until morning, then I was a total mess cognitively and brainwise for the whole morning. My local doctor (my retired family practice wife) suggests just takin a full tablet when I go to bed tonight to see what happens. The neuro who give the original decision told us that I would need to move up to a higher dose, but to start at the bottom. Me, I've never cared for sleeping meds of any kind, never had good experience with them, so I'm bothered about increasing the dose at all. But I will tonight then decide tomorrow whether to stay the course. I just don't want to go up any more, but the fact is that the regular low dose for adults is over 100, which I'll just not go to. I think 50 will be my upper limit. So, that's where things stand with the Trazodone experiment right now. Good luck to all.

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Bill,

It seems you have a major fear of Trazodone.  I've been taking it for the last 8 years, long before Parkinson's entered my life. I used to experience the hangover effect you're referring to.  I take 100 mg.  I normally go to bed around 11:00pm and I'm up at 5:00am getting ready for work.  I take the Trazodone at 9:00pm, two hours before bed.  I find that it helps me relax and unwind from my day.

Dave

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Dave, thanks for the reply, and yes I have a major fear of Trazodone, mostly because of long past experiences with sleeping med. When I read that Trazodone was originally tested for depression, then they realized it was a better sleep aid, and the literature claims to be virtually free of adverse reactions and withdrawal, I decided to ask about it. Last two night have been good on 50 mg, but I fear that I soon will need 100 which my neuro told me was probably about right for me. I just don't want to get to 100 or whatever and keep having to up the dose. Yes, it is just a fear, but I'm feeling better reading all the responses, particularly what you have said. I need something because insomnia has been killing me for more than a year or two, and Trazodone helps me sleep through the night. This morning, I felt great with no drug feeling, and I hope it just keeps up. Thanks. Bill.

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Bill, I hope your experience with Trazodone continues to be a positive one for you.

I have had the same experience as you as far as it being hard to get a good night's sleep at times.  In addition to what I've already posted previously, something that I forgot to mention that has been one of the most helpful things is using a heating pad on the lowest setting on my lower back at night.  Often I'll wake up in exactly the same position as I did when I went to bed (on my back) when I use the heating pad.  It's not recommended to lay on the pad, but I decided that I would take the (measured) risk since not getting sleep felt worse to me.  I always ensure the heating pad is flat when not using and also when using, trying to avert damage to the wires.  I use Sunbeam's Model 819 50 Watt heating pad.  The plastic covering on the wires also has lots of information printed on it as to what other cautions to take.

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Linda, thanks for the reply. It is looking at if 50mg isn't going to do it. I'm going to stay with it for another couple nights, then if I still can't get to sleep and stay asleep I'm going to go up to 75mg. My neuro has always said that 100mg is probably the range for me, but he too wants me to stay at 50 or 75 if there is any benefit at that dose. Someone wrote that I have a fear of this drug. Yes, I do, as I don't like sleeping medications for many reasons learned the hard way, but I can't survive without sleep so I don't know what else to do. I'm already doing all the non-drug things that I've read about or have been suggested by any of my doctors, so I just hope I can stay at 50, or failing that get a good stable result at 75 and possibly 100. If that doesn't work, I just won't go any higher in dosage. I'll find something else to try, but I just don't what that might be. Thanks again. Bill.

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Bill,

i want to add some helpful advice that my pain management doctor gave me several years ago in regards to my sleep. As my Parkinson's progresses, it seems that it has targeted my ability sleep through the night. I was getting really frustrated because of this which only intensifies the effect. My PM suggested that when I wake up, just accept that the event occurred and don't dwell on it. It took some time to adopt this carefree attitude but now when I wake up I just roll over, relax, and clear my thoughts. I usually fall back to sleep within a few minutes. The exception to this rule is when I have to see a man about a horse where I frequently find myself falling asleep standing in front of the porcelain god or sitting on my throne.

Don't worry to much about the milligrams. Look at it this way - supposably Parkinson's comes with a nice dose of depression, so Trazodone can help combat both the sleep and depression symptoms. So far I have not experienced any depression associated with PD or the chronic pain that I suffer with on a daily basis.

i'm gonna try and catch some ZZZZZZ's before 5:00am rolls around.

Sleep well my good man.

Dave

 

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Dave, I actually slept fine with a few trips to the bathroom last night. And I was on 50mg. I like the relax and clear the mind part, because clearing the mind is a major problem with me getting back to sleep. Thanks. Bill.

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