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noah

sleeping trouble

13 posts in this topic

 

I am still having trouble falling asleep. As I have mentioned before I saw  a sleep doctor who suggested  that i was spending too much time in bed and i needed  to stay up later which i cant I b/c i am off. i have not been able to find a regime that will keep me on long enough to retrain  my brain  while at the same time not keeping me up too late.(so many of the pills have a  side effect of insomonia) So as a result I am still laying there trying to sleep. i am concerned about getting up and wandering around at night for fear of falling.  I am  currently taking 2.5 mg melatonin and .50 ml of valderian

Have you ever heard of nocturest?

 

I was wondering if the additional herbs would be helpful

 

Thank you for always taking the time for us!!

 

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Noah,

The sleep issue your are battling is very common with PD patients. I have read many studies about Vitamins and herbs to help aid with sleep and the jury is still out as to their effectiveness. 

As far as the 2 you are currently taking, melatonin and valerian, The main issue has been if these products even cross the Blood Brain Barrier in order to work. The molecules seem to be too big to pass through this, which means that they have very little efficacy if any at all. The product Nocturest (as per their website) is a combination of passion flower, melatonin, valerian, lemon balm, hops, chamomile, theanine, and magnesium. On e again the issue is the same. Are these able to cross the Blood Brain Barrier and, if so, will that concentration be enough to work. Most of the studies say, "No."

I understand your reluctancy to take hypnotics (ie, Ambien, Lunesta, etc...) due to the side effects of theses medications. Have you tried Benadryl (Diphenydramine)? This product is primarily used for allergies, but the side effect of drowsiness makes it effective for sleep also. It has also been used, way back in the day, to treat PD symptoms. Maybe a 25mg tablet to start may help. It is effective in some people and does not usually cause the "drug hangover" feeling the next day. I would also recommend that you do not take this in combination with any other natural products.

If this does not seem to work you may want to speak to your Dr. about possibly trying a prescription medication called Desyrel (Trazadone). It is indicated for treatment of depression, but as with many of these medications it is the side effect of drowsiness that can be effective. I know several people who have had great success with it to help with sleep. It comes in strengths of 50mg, 100mg, and 150mg. I have seen starting doses at 1/2 of a 50mg tablet (25mg) at bedtime for sleep. It can be titrated up to a dose that may work for you. I have also seen that it does not seem to cause the "foggy" feeling the next day.

There are a few opinions and options for you. Please keep me posted and remember with any of these medications it is best to "start low and go slow" with the dosage of any of these medications.

I hope this helps.

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If I w anted to try the  Benadryl  would I need to wait a day for the other stuff gets out of my system

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What is the difference between Trazadone and Clonazapam ?

I have heard awful things about  Clonazapam 

I would like to try the benedryl.  Should I wait a day before I try it to get the other stuff out of my systrem

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Noah,

You do not have to wait any length of time in order to take the Benadryl. Also, Trazadone is not like Clonazepam. Clonazepam (Klonipin), Alprazolam (Xanax), and Lorazepam (Ativan) are all medications used for anxiety and do have an addictive potential for addiction. Trazadone is classified as an antidepressant, but is mainly used as a sleep aid.

I hope this helpa and keep me posted.

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I am taking nortripylin 50 mg before bed Would the trazadonde take its place?

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Noah,

I was unaware that you were taking Nortryptaline at bedtime. If you were taking that for sleep, then the Trazadone would replace that. They are in different medication categories so, depending on how long you were on Nortryptaline, you may have to taper off of it before trying the Trazadone. This will be a decision your physician will have to make.

As always, I hope this helps and please keep me updated.

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the  noratriptaline was primarily given to  me for my mood.  The sleep benefit was just a side bar. it really doesnt help that much for sleep . I took 25 mg benadrys and it seemed to help a little.  How  much is safe to take? and how long is it safe to use it for sleep  

Thank you for all your help you really are a blessing  

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In that case the Trazadone will more than likely replace the Nortryptaline, but that is a decision your physician will have to decide.

The maximum dosage used for sleep is 50mg to 75mg at bedtime. It should be started at 25mg for a period of 5-7 days and then increased by 25mg. It is not recommended that this only be taken for a maximum of 14 days unless authorized by your physician. You should also contact your physician to let them know that you are taking this so they are aware and can place it in your chart notes.

If taken along with Nortryptaline, it may cause some extra drowsiness (which is an additive effect. Ie. 1+1=3) and possible next day "fogginess." You may also experience dry eyes, dry mouth, and dry skin.

I hope this helps and please keep me posted. 

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Noah,

There are their similarities:

Both Antidepressants

Both are used for Depression and Anxiety

Both are also used for the side effect of drowsiness

Both should follow the "Start low and go Slow" program

Both have side effects of: Drowsiness, dizziness, lightheadedness, dry mouth, small aches or pains in the muscles that usually subsides over time, sweating, and orthostatic hypotension (a drop in blood pressure while rising from a laying or seated position). Make sure you get up slowly from a laying or seated position.

Their differences are:

Trazadone is known as an Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitor antidepressant (SARI). Others in this drug class include Serzone (Nefazodone) and Normarex (Lorpiprazole)-which is rarely used any more.

Medication Interactions of Trazadone include: SSRI's such as Prozac (Fluoxetine) Lexapro (Escitalopram), Celexa (Citalopram), Zoloft (Sertralazine), Paxil (Paroxetine, and Luvox (Fluvoxamine),Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI'S) such as Azilect (Rasagiline), Eldepryl (Selegine), Parnate (Tranylcyproine), and Nardil (Phenelzine), Levaquin (Levofloxacin), Blood Thinners such as Coumadin (Warfarin), Aspirin, and Motrin or Advil (Ibuprofen), Tylenol (Acetaminophen), and Robitussin (Guaifenesin).

Doxepin is known as a Tricyclic antidepressant (TCA). Others in this drug class include Tofranil (Desipramine), Pamalor (Nortryptaline), Elavil (Amitryptaline), and Anafranil (Clomipramine)

Medication Interactions of Doxepin include: Tagamet (Cimetidine), Calcium Channel blockers (usually used for high blood pressure) like Cardizem (Diltiazem), Procardia (Nifedipine) Norvasc (Amlodipine) and Calan (Verapamil), Ritalin (Methylphenidate), and Prozac (Fluoxetine).

The main between the two is primarily about their effects on the brain chemistry and a physicians choice of medication. I have seen both work very well as antidepressants, anti-anxiety, and sleep aids.

I hope this helps and please keep me posted. 

 

 

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Noah,

No one is better than the other, it is patient and Dr specific. What you are using it for you should get the same effect.

I hope this helps and keep me posted.

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